Curse

trobinson97 · Nov 06, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

People should understand in a Online game the concept you dont like the feature because it make the game cheap dont use it dont work.

To show you i will make a example of this concept taken to the limit.

Lets say anet tomorrow make 2 skill.

Skill A : Summon 10000 gold from nothing and add to your inventory.
Skill B : Kill everthing on your randar.

People can choose to not use them, so why dont keep them?

Neither of those are skills in the game so why would we discuss that? Let's keep it to what's actually in the game please.

Keifru · Nov 06, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

Skill B : Kill everthing on your randar.

I would be interested if you would care to explain this 'randar'. It may have game-shattering effects.

Anyway, I like ursan because now I can do DoA without having to run some bullox cookie build. However, making ursan strike an attack skill would make a heckuva lot more sense.

yesitsrob · Nov 06, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Anyway, I like ursan because now I can do DoA without having to run some bullox cookie build.

Because Ursan isn't some bullox cookie build and because you actually do have to run cookie cutter builds in the first place? C/D

Doodle123 · Nov 06, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

ill try to respond to everything you said, and as you can see my post was a bit rushed. but i still disagree with the general idea posed in most responses here. the fact is that what other people do DOES effect me, the fact that sure you can FARM DOA as trappers or 600s, but noone but ursan does any quests to actually win them. i want to get me a tormented item and i cant because the NPC that sells armbraces is only available to those who have completed any of the lord quests and i cant complete any of them because ursan owns it.

lets put it this way. name one elite in the game where a nuker cant get a group? ill tell you right now that there isnt any but DOA because they have no need, ursan destroys any build. the problem with ursan is that its not close to as good as most builds, its that it basically is MUCH better then any build out there. people talk about how having 6 searing flames nukers would do as much damage, perhaps yes, but we definitely wouldnt survive long enough to deal it. there is no group build out there that is just 6 of everything plus 2 monks and you can do any mission. its always been about a balanced group, and ursan is removing that balance. now people are farming faster, and prices are dropping (dont believe me go look at price of titan gems, dropped 2 k in the last few days becuase of how easy it is to farm everything) thats 20% loss on value to someone who is trying to get money for HOM (no i dont mean panda, but i do mean some of the better ones that cost lets say 80 ectos) how the hell can i get 80 ectos if i cant even FARM the only area with anything +100k in it anymore, let alone the fact that its being overfarmed now because a baby could do it with ursan.

the fact remains that there is a few simple concepts being applied here. what other gamers do does effect me because it effects my ability to generate money which in turn effects my ability to get my heros in HOM (due to paying for armour) or my minipets (due to them inherantly going up in value as they become dedicated) to even my own armour sets (how do i pay for dwarven armour?) because i cant do any farming because ursan is just plain superior by FAR to any build out there. you guys say that people do DOA all the time without ursan but just go there and see what build people are using that isnt for just FARMING it, but actually completing it? none but ursan. i hve had access to DOA for 4 days now and havent even gone on a single run in any location do to ursan. since when was it Anet policy to completely stop a player from being able to do an area because of a lack of a single skill.

like in any market be it items or people, people will do what is most efficient and best. and right now in DOA ursan is the best and most efficient, so if your not ursan or a monk, then GL getting aparty together to do anything.

Avarre · Nov 06, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Guild Wars was designed with balance between skills in mind. This means all skills are meant to be balanced.

PvE skills by nature are imbalanced, requiring restrictions, and are thus a deviation from the original idea. Playing with PvE skills is hardly even playing a game anymore, it's point and click for epic lulzpve. A tactic for winning an area shouldn't be adding more powerful skills, it should be playing better. Elite areas, especially, should be an incentive to make players learn to play better.

Removing all PvE skills would be a good thing.

trobinson97 · Nov 06, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodle123

ill try to respond to everything you said, and as you can see my post was a bit rushed. but i still disagree with the general idea posed in most responses here. the fact is that what other people do DOES effect me, the fact that sure you can FARM DOA as trappers or 600s, but noone but ursan does any quests to actually win them. i want to get me a tormented item and i cant because the NPC that sells armbraces is only available to those who have completed any of the lord quests and i cant complete any of them because ursan owns it.

Come on man, where are you getting this info? You can't complete any DoA quests because Ursan owns it? Does that really make sense to you? Ursan has_not_taken over any area. Just because people CAN complete it with Ursan does not mean everyone IS. Ursan isn't stopping you from getting a group, so let's kill noise right now. Ursan still doesn't affect how you play in your own instance, should you choose to not play it.

Quote:

lets put it this way. name one elite in the game where a nuker cant get a group? ill tell you right now that there isnt any but DOA because they have no need, ursan destroys any build. the problem with ursan is that its not close to as good as most builds, its that it basically is MUCH better then any build out there. people talk about how having 6 searing flames nukers would do as much damage, perhaps yes, but we definitely wouldnt survive long enough to deal it.

Again, where have you gotten your info man? Eles can still get in DoA lol. You're killing me right now. Surely you don't believe that stuff. Show some proof where no eles can get into DoA and it's all the fault of Ursan blessing.

Quote:

there is no group build out there that is just 6 of everything plus 2 monks and you can do any mission.

I'm willing to submit a group of Paragons and monks could. I've seen where 12 warriors did the Deep, so where's the balance there, and where is the outcry?

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its always been about a balanced group,

Again, no it hasn't. Traditionally it's been all about the Trinity and that's not balanced.

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and ursan is removing that balance.

Proof? You still have the choice to run what you will.

Quote:

now people are farming faster, and prices are dropping (dont believe me go look at price of titan gems, dropped 2 k in the last few days becuase of how easy it is to farm everything) thats 20% loss on value to someone who is trying to get money for HOM

How is farming faster a bad thing? If you're farming faster you're probably making money faster, either by selling to players or merching, so what's the big deal?

Quote:

(no i dont mean panda, but i do mean some of the better ones that cost lets say 80 ectos) how the hell can i get 80 ectos if i cant even FARM the only area with anything +100k in it anymore, let alone the fact that its being overfarmed now because a baby could do it with ursan.

A baby could go into Underworld and farm ectos with 55/33, Rits, Warriors or groups. A baby oculd spec as B/P and farm ectos in Tombs. Your argument is lacking, ectos haven't gone anywhere, you get them the same way you've always gotten them: farm them or farm other stuff, merch and buy from people.

Quote:

the fact remains that there is a few simple concepts being applied here.

What are the factual few simple concepts being applied here?

Quote:

what other gamers do does effect me because it effects my ability to generate money which in turn effects my ability to get my heros in HOM (due to paying for armour) or my minipets (due to them inherantly going up in value as they become dedicated) to even my own armour sets (how do i pay for dwarven armour?)

Wow man, woe is you. If you are worried about prices fluctuating you are aiming your frustrations at the wrong thing. That's what happens in a player driven economy, prices change. You get your hero armor by doing the quests to get them to drop. If you want to pay for it, you farm for the cash like everyone else. If you have to farm that green a few more times to get the money nothing has changed, you're still farming to get the money. You pay for your Dwarven armor the same way you always have, with gold and materials that you bought/collected by playing the game, whether it was playing through or farming. That's how the system works man.

[quote]because i cant do any farming because ursan is just plain superior by FAR to any build out there. [quote]

That's so utterly ridiculous. You can't farm because Ursan exists? How in the world does someone farming in one instance determine how you farm in another? Wow.

Quote:

you guys say that people do DOA all the time without ursan but just go there and see what build people are using that isnt for just FARMING it, but actually completing it? none but ursan.

I've gone almost every night and while some Ursan groups have shown up, it's not taking over. The districts are still largely empty and people are still capable of completing the quests without DoA. If you can't find a group to do it non Ursan, contact Racthoh and some of the other mature guys from SMS, I'm sure they'd be willing to help you out. There's also the option of using your friends list, guild, and alliance. Ursan doesn't stop you from playing the way you want to play.

Quote:

i hve had access to DOA for 4 days now and havent even gone on a single run in any location do to ursan.

It's not because of Ursan, could be because you're new. Most likely it's because no one really does DoA except to do the farms. Since last week, I've only seen 2 people specifically asking to go Ursan, and the rest were farming. It's been that way a long time before Ursan my friend. Since you are just getting there 4 days ago, you wouldn't have known. Most groups that do the quests are guild/alliance/friend type groups, you should look into them.

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since when was it Anet policy to completely stop a player from being able to do an area because of a lack of a single skill.

Hmm, never, and it still isn't. You're just over exaggerating.

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like in any market be it items or people, people will do what is most efficient and best.

That's pretty smart of people.

Quote:

and right now in DOA ursan is the best and most efficient, so if your not ursan or a monk, then GL getting aparty together to do anything.

Says you, the guy who has only been in DoA for 4 days and has yet to complete a quest. How do you know what's the most efficient when you haven't run any of them?!

BenjZee · Nov 06, 2007, 10:15 AM // 10:15

im all in favour of ursen even though i don't have gw:en.
Im scared though because i beleve Gaile said somerthing about skill updates. Ursen blessing maybe? Sab's build?

lishi · Nov 06, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Neither of those are skills in the game so why would we discuss that? Let's keep it to what's actually in the game please.

The point was demonstrate the justification "if you dont like it dont use it" cleary dont work in guild wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keifru

I would be interested if you would care to explain this 'randar'. It may have game-shattering effects.

Im sure you are smart enough to figure it out my error in spelling.

bungusmaximus · Nov 06, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Nurf me....if you dare!

Sweet Mystery · Nov 06, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Lol... you gotta love it.... people want more skills to play with, they come along and then people moan like hell about a skill. Wonder which will be next on the PvE skills to nerf... am I overpowered as I take a L20 Mursaat or Djinn along too, as its an extra party member free of charge dealing damage?

When it comes down to it, NO ONE can tell others what to play and people will play what they want to play. I choose my build, which does not use UB. Some instances I may chose to load it on my skill bar... most of the time I won't. That is my choice.

If you don't like the skill don't use it, stop crying out to stop others who obviously like the skill and use it by this "bullying" mentality to get a skill nerfed.

That is what I see going on, a small minority of players in the vast millions who play the game calling out to nerf a skill because they don't like it. Simply "bullying" by all accounts.

As to the economy.... many people forget all these other additions to the GW world, Russia came online, most of Eastern Europe have their own districts, more Asian countries coming online. We know that many of them farm and farm and farm... you really think they are all using Ursanway to farm all this and bring prices down? I think not....

bungusmaximus · Nov 06, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Mystery

Lol... you gotta love it.... people want more skills to play with, they come along and then people moan like hell about a skill. Wonder which will be next on the PvE skills to nerf... am I overpowered as I take a L20 Mursaat or Djinn along too, as its an extra party member free of charge dealing damage?

This game was always advertised as skill > time invested. It's what makes it special and people like it that way. If you have to handicap yourself to get a challenge out of a game there's something wrong. Like boxing against a toddler with 1 hand tied on your back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Mystery

When it comes down to it, NO ONE can tell others what to play and people will play what they want to play. I choose my build, which does not use UB. Some instances I may chose to load it on my skill bar... most of the time I won't. That is my choice.

Anet can as a matter of fact, see previous PvP related nerfs in the past. Anet listens to people that know a lot about/care about the game, a lot of those people tend to post on forums. Better to listen to them then to people that never play GW, the other alternative is not listening to feedback at all, which is WAY worse then the current situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Mystery

If you don't like the skill don't use it, stop crying out to stop others who obviously like the skill and use it by this "bullying" mentality to get a skill nerfed.

If I would be a bully I would most probably flame you now, which I don't do. I, indeed, don't use UB, I find it to be unfun. People say the things they say because they acknowledge the difference between a good game and a lame game, not because they want to refrain others from having fun, or didn't you peole have fun before UB?

zwei2stein · Nov 06, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Removing all PvE skills would be a good thing.

Amen, brother.

ender6 · Nov 06, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

No need to flame/or cry...

UB will be nerfed as it should.

As Avarre said the biggest mistake ANet made was introducing PvE only skills. The introduction of such skills underminds the gaming concept of GW. What set this game apart from others within its genre was the use of skills and balance. Hopefully ANet has learned its lesson(s) and it will show when GW2 is released.

Trub · Nov 06, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

If I would be a bully I would most probably flame you now, which I don't do. I, indeed, don't use UB, I find it to be unfun. People say the things they say because they acknowledge the difference between a good game and a lame game, not because they want to refrain others from having fun, or didn't you peole have fun before UB?

Thank you.
I couldn't have said it better.
_____________
Rit LFG DoA....I AM A RITUALISTS, NOT A BEAR!!

Crom The Pale · Nov 06, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

There is no balance in PvE, how can there be with monster only skills??

UB gives some people a choice they never had before.

Now some of the less skilled players get a chance to play in an elite zone and might actually win. This does not mean no other build can be used. You are always able to run any build you want as long as you have guildmebers or can find a pug that will let you.

Now were back to what will pugs allow other people to play, which has been around since the very begining of GW. This skill is just the lates example of how people are arogently dictating how others must play this game.

Remove UB or all PvE only skills from GW and you will still have people telling others what skills are and are not acceptable in THIER party.

The problem lies not with the game but with ourselves!

GloryFox · Nov 06, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Skill A : Summon 10000 gold from nothing and add to your inventory.
Skill B : Kill everthing on your randar.

Ever seen the the full power of the original EoE?

You could clear a map in a matter of seconds. It was only nerfed because of PvP, due to Alliance Battle balance problems (Suicide Necro Squads FTW!

). It was never balanced because of its overwhelming power and ability to instantly kill everything on your radar, then hand you 1000's of gold from nothing into your inventory.

Just a bit of historical reference.

DivineEnvoy · Nov 06, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

This game was always advertised as skill > time invested. It's what makes it special and people like it that way. If you have to handicap yourself to get a challenge out of a game there's something wrong. Like boxing against a toddler with 1 hand tied on your back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me on post 209

Advertisement is a way to raise sales for a certain product. Buyers do not have to follow the exact way the product is introduced to make use of the product. People are humans, not robots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Anet can as a matter of fact, see previous PvP related nerfs in the past. Anet listens to people that know a lot about/care about the game, a lot of those people tend to post on forums. Better to listen to them then to people that never play GW, the other alternative is not listening to feedback at all, which is WAY worse then the current situation.

As you said it yourself, they are PVP nerfs. We are talking about PVE here, which is different than PVP. So what if a player decides to make a free forum account and posts on a forum? That action is so easy even a caveman can do it. Posting on a forum is not a big deal; however, if the idea is valid, we should listen to it. If you ever bothered to read through the thread, most of us are in favor of keeping Ursan Blessing the way it is, and some of us did provide strong and valid reasons, which you are lack of.

This is getting no where. Most of us just continue to post valid reasons against the arguement of nerfing Ursan Blessing; yet they are continue to be ignored. Reason is not that our posts are lacking of intelligent or anything, they are simply the truth, which some of these people are unable to handle. Sounds similar to real life, doesn't it? Ursan Blessing is crushing the pride of these people who use Guild Wars as an escape factor from reality, and that is a problem: go see a doctor.

trobinson97 · Nov 06, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

The point was demonstrate the justification "if you dont like it dont use it" cleary dont work in guild wars.

How does it "clearly" not work, when those skills clearly don't exist? There are skills I don't like, so I don't use them, so clearly the argument of "if you don't like it, don't use it" does work in Guild Wars. There people in this thread who've said they don't like/use UB so clearly it works. It's just that most of them choose to go one step further and say, "I don't like it or use it, and I want it nerfed for you."

Sweet Mystery · Nov 07, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

It's just that most of them choose to go one step further and say, "I don't like it or use it, and I want it nerfed for you."

Precisely. People want to spoil what others do in the game. People don't care on what other people like to use, people who have every right to use a skill they want to use.

As stated I don't use UB, but I am not going to turn round and tell Anet to nerf it because some people are using it for a purpose that seems to work for them.

Let people use what they want and live with it. Don't like it, then ignore the skill. It isn't going to creep up from the shadows and shout "Boo!" at you is it? Just how is that skill being in existence affecting people directly? Not at all. If really really annoyed at PvE skills coming in to help PvE players, go play WoW...

angmar_nite · Nov 07, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Now some of the less skilled players get a chance to play in an elite zone and might actually win!

Elite zone = bane of less skilled players.

Or at least it should be. If it was able to be done by someone with little skill, it's hardly elite.

Look at the Steel Wall in the deep. Sure if EVERYONE is experienced it works like a nice well oiled machine. But if a tank pulls poorly? If the necro can't gaze the fleshies well? If the players are undisciplined? Falls apart fast.

It's cookie cutter and trinity yes. Skill less? no

On the other hand with RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin URSAN BLITZ! Just keep tapping the attack
buttons!

And when a skill becomes to powerful boycotting it only hurts the experience for YOU! You won't get accepted into pugs or even guild groups! It'll take the online out of MMO as much as any hero could.